out. had more drag caused by stub fuselage for its cockpit. 4 x 12.7mm machine guns in wingsP-51D: 6 x .50 cal machine guns in wings. This title explores the formidable Me 262 and P-51 Mustang, two planes which represented the state-of-the-art in terms of design, performance, and combat capability for their respective air forces. Even after the Reich introduced the Messerschmitt Me 262 jet fighter, which was faster than any warplane in Allied hands, Brown and the other Tuskegee Airmen continued to do what fighter pilots always do: They fought aggressively. Many escorting P-51 pilots shot down Me-262s by simply doing a Split-S maneuver This title explores the formidable Me 262 and P-51 Mustang, two planes which represented the state-of-the-art in terms of design, performance, and combat capability for their respective air forces. This is because the brushless setup is not working very hard compared to the brushed motor. Adolf Galland witnessed events from the ground. the Mustang. Size: 1624inch(4060cm) 1218inch(3045cm) 1624inch(4060cm) . P-47 Thunderbolt was gigantic. Force Service in 1950 at the onset of the Korean Conflict. as within seconds, a P-51 would reach 500+MPH I pulled up at him in a fifteen degree climb and fired three long bursts at him from 2,000 feet at eight oclock to him. While this versatile aircraft did not turn the tide of war in Germanys favor, its innovative design proved ahead of its time and continues to inspire modern aircraft today. Short story taking place on a toroidal planet or moon involving flying. I confirm that I want to send my data to receive news and promotions via email. Both planes also significantly impacted the war the P-51 helped to turn the tide in favor of the Allies, while the Me 262 was a significant threat to Allied forces. While it had rocket fuel, a Me-163 was untouchable -- but after it burned its rocket-fuel, Me-163 was defenseless. The P-51 Mustang or the Me 262 Schwalbe? Over Western Europe there wasn't such a discrepancy in pilot training or aircraft performance even at the end of the war. 8 when Major Walter Nowotny, the Kommandos renowned leader and one of the most Two seconds later, I saw another piece hit close to the first piece. Whether Me-163 pilot had slowed before attacking, or if it had run out of rocket-fuel, remains a mystery. Rolls-Royce (Packard) Merlin engine and drop tanks, the USAAF finally had a This was made using. As I glanced back I saw a gigantic film, was eventually credited with the destruction of two Me 262s. or was based on I waited until they were both airborne and then rolled over from Equation alignment in aligned environment not working properly. The waist guns (which my father was assigned to before he was shot down) were in open windows. If a Me-262 ever slowed down, it became vulnerable, C.E. Firstly, it was used as a fighter plane to battle against Allied aircraft. Oberfahnrich Russel. In terms of design, both planes had sleek, aerodynamic shapes that made them fast and agile. Ford Mustang Shelby GT500 (2019) L'argus. Luftwaffe fighter arms nemesis. Discussion in 'Aircraft' started by Sinster, May 7, 2003. The German response was the construction of a "flak lane" of over 150 emplacements of the 20 mm Flakvierling quadruple autocannon batteries at Rheine-Hopsten to protect the approaches. F-82 Twin Mustang wasn't surpassed until advent of jet fighters like F-86 and MiG-15. However, in 1945, light-weight P-51H Mustangs were ready that could reach 490..500MPH. F-35 Lightning II vs F/A-18E Super Hornet, F-35 Lightning II vs F-16E Fighting Falcon BLOCK 60. Whether taking down Nazis or wowing crowds at air shows, the P-51 Mustang always knew how to make an impact. A P-51 of 359th FG (Lt. Col. Murphy) was barely able to pursue it and hit it from 1,000 yards. Underground Messerschmitt Me 262 factory "Weingut I" [Vineyard I] Mhldorf am Inn, Germany (May 1945) PVT.Snafu. Feb 1, 2010 Thread starter #7 Zniperguy114 Airman 67 0 P-51 Mustang vs Messerschmitt Me 262: WE FOUGHT THE ARYAN RACES to the death..WE ARE BRAVE AND STRONG.and if THEY show up . explosion, and a sheet of red-orange flame shot out over an area of about [ref: History Channel's "Dogfights"]. came into firing range. The P-51 and the Me 262 are similar in that they were both used as fighter planes during WWII. The attack on the bombers was ineffective because of the prompt action of my flight in breaking up the attack. The six .50-caliber M2 machine guns of Browns P-51 had torn the German jet fighter apart. U.S. Air Force photo. defensive maneuver. Up to 1,000 lbs (454kg) of bombs, rockets or fuel droptanks. They shot down 12 bombers and one fighter for the loss of three Me 262s. The fight against the Third Reich ended on May 8, 1945, but the fight for equality lasted longer. The only logical option for the German would be to play to his strengths.climb out at speed and leave the Mustang behind, meaning no victory for either side. Mustang's design was refined rather than radical, Follow. Hit by 30mm minengeschoss : survived. how in 1945 surviving German pilots continued to fight even though Drew claimed, and despite the failure of his gun camera to record the action on I was always under the impression the ME262's ratio wasn't that hot as many were shot down on takeoff or landing? for take-off, but at that moment the P-51D of 361st FG pilot 1Lt Urban L. Drew Many P-51s evaded attacking MiG-15s by turning hard, but about twenty P-51s were shot down. This website uses technical and profiling cookies. 'He 2023 - Comparison - BVR - Dogfight. Google Analytics is a web analytics service provided by Google Ireland Limited ("Google"). but before being deployed in Europe, slower P-51D Mustangs had succeeded in vanquishing Me-262s. Its elliptical wings made Spitfire beautiful and turn more tightly. Let's find out! But theres one area where the P-51 shines: range. Worse was to come on the afternoon of Nov. ultimately overwhelmed by multitudes of pouncing Mustangs. This was made using the World War II flight simulator IL-2 Sturmovik Great Battles series. koreanwar.org: possibly he may have chosen it if requirements called for two-seats. I was at 17,000 feet when I broke off the encounter., A piece of the plane, either the canopy or one of the jet orifices, flew off. Number Two: P-51D-5-NA Mustang 44-13926, E2 S, assigned to another pilot but flown on this day by Lieutenant Urban L. ("Ben") Drew. And finally, lets not forget about aesthetics the sleek lines and swept wings of the Me 262 are pretty distinct from the boxy shape and straight branches of the P-51. Almost immediately, the pilot bailed out from about 24,500 feet. B-17s didn't have door gunners. May 2003, 03:33 PM: Message edited by: CrazyD ], http://forums.bfnation.net/viewtopic.php?t=9765, http://www.mysa.com/mysanantonio/links/yeager.shtml, http://www.acepilots.com/planes/p51d_mustang.html, http://home.att.net/~jbaugher1/p51_10.html, (You must log in or sign up to reply here. turbo-chargers muffled its engines and exhausts were placed behind pilot. You are at a gateway to WWII discussion, research, exploration, & analysis. (Air Force af.mil), P-51 shot down MiG-15 ?? IMO it is hard to compare the P-51 and teh Bf-109, simply because they were designed at least until the K variant of the Bf-109 for generaly different purpouses. I like how he flew through the explosion with all the debris and stuff and his plane is left untouched. Follow. [ref: "P-51 Mustang: From 1940 to 1980" book], real photo of P-51 with ram-jets (but in 1946 after WWII). Drew flew his P-51 its strengths, the P-51 was more than capable of taking on the feared Me 262 on As told by Robert Forsyth in his book Me 262 Vs P-51 Mustang, since August 1944, the USAAF had been aware that the Luftwaffe had started to deploy the Me 262 in small numbers over the Western Front in both the fighter and bomber roles. Spitfire was lighter, climbed faster, more maneuverable at lower speeds. I don't have a resource to cite, but I recall a video interview with a then-elderly Mustang pilot who described the speed of ME262 climb and said he shot one down by out turning it and "setting up a line of 50 cal" for it to fly into. A quick Google, Your answer could be improved with additional supporting information. To confront the bombers and fighters, Jagdgeschwader 7 (Fighter Group 7) Nowotny, launched 30 Messerschmitt Me 262s from Brandenburg Briest near Berlin. Approximately 1400 models have been built, Menu. Wrote Brown in his after-action report: I pulled up at him in a fifteen degree climb and fired three long bursts at him from 2,000 feet at eight oclock to him. Its a matchup that aviation enthusiasts have debated for years. Please. Another significant difference is that the P-51 was primarily used as a bomber escort, while the Me 262 was mainly used for air combat. Ah, the age-old question. Piper PA-48 Enforcer. Though they have some similarities, there are also several key differences between these two planes. from Joan Romba. Actual top speed depends on altitude and other factors. Making its operational debut in the summer of 1944, and powered by the Jumo 004 jet engine, the Me 262 outclassed anything the Allies had in terms of speed and firepower. Another time, when on patrol, he shot down several US B-17 Flying Fortress bombers that didn't react to repeated warnings. I confirm that I want to send my data to receive news and promotions via email. The Me 262 was nearly 100 mph faster than the P-51D, which put the Mustang at a distinct disadvantage. [ref: North American P-51H Mustang by David McLaren] Only veteran or lucky German pilots could survive in a Me-109. kill while flying in his piston-engine F-51D Mustang named Buckeye Answer (1 of 8): Here are two tangles between P-51's and ME262's, which typify such engagements. So they would loiter high up near the German airfields, dive through the Flak barrages and try to catch them landing. He was one of almost a thousand African-American fliers known as the Tuskegee Airmen who overcame discrimination, mastered the challenge of piloting a combat aircraft, and served their country by doing battle in skies high over the Third Reich. There are pros and cons to both aircraft. By clicking Post Your Answer, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. via Asisbiz This would allow pilots such as Franz Schall to shoot down a score of Allied aircraft, and Schall himself shot down 17 enemy fighters including 10 P-51s. Arguably two of the finest fighters built during the course of World War II, the Me 262 and P-51 Mustang heralded new dawns in aircraft performance. Clicking on "Accept" authorises all profiling cookies. Seen here minus its Junkers Jumo jet engines and surrounded by it's 30mm Mk 108 cannon shells. Report. Making its operational debut in the summer of 1944, and powered by the Jumo 004 jet engine, the Me 262 outclassed anything the Allies had in terms of speed and firepower. In the Pacific the Hellcat was 19:1 and the Corsair was 11:1. This title explores the formidable Me 262 and P-51 Mustang, two planes which represented the state-of-the-art in terms of design, performance, and combat capability for their respective air forces.Arguably two of the finest fighters built during the course of World War II, the Me 262 and P-51 Mustang heralded new dawns in aircraft performance. The first production variant, the Me 262A-1a, entered service in July 1944.This variant, nicknamed Schwalbe (German: "Swallow"), was powered by two 8.8 kN (1,980 lbf) Jumo 004B-1 engines and was armed with four 30 mm MK 108 cannons in the nose.. A single Me 262A-1a/U1 was built with an increased nose armament of two 20 mm (0.787 in) MG 151 cannons, two 30 mm (1.181 in) MK 103 cannons, and two . Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. Books researched for this webpage, whose authors researched official combat records, Whatever the case, a short To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers. Spitfire developed into a different airplane (Spiteful), Both involve healthy jets, and American ace pilots. Place of processing: Ireland , The First Engagement Between a P-51 and an Me 262 and the Death of Luftwaffe Ace Walter Nowotny, I confirm that I have read, consent and agree to The Aviation Geek Club. $21.87 $ 21. It wasnt easy. in my studies on this crate for over 40 plus years. We easily out-maneuvered him, and when he dived pass us, I realized the enemy aircraft was jet-propelled. The pilot concluded his account by warning starkly that, Care should be taken when breaking into this type of aircraft. A P-51 faster than a ME-262? He is the 1:21. 2nd Lt. Charles V. Brantley became the second 332nd pilot to engage an Me 262. I confirm that I have read, consent and agree to The Aviation Geek Club Privacy Policy. take-off. It also acted as a ground attack bomber, capable of inflicting significant damage on enemy troops and equipment. 3:53. https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.aviation.military/L7m7gZlpnKQ, groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.aviation.military/, We've added a "Necessary cookies only" option to the cookie consent popup. The Me 262 and P-51 Mustang represented the state-of-the-art in terms of design, performance and combat capability for their respective air forces. However, as with other turbojet engines at the time, the Me 262's engines did not provide sufficient thrust at low air speeds and throttle response was slow, meaning in certain circumstances such as takeoff and landing, the aircraft became a vulnerable target. (f-106deltadart.com)] (conservapedia.com), P-51 shot down MiG-15 ?? I was at 17,000 feet when I broke off the encounter.. jets could be somewhat offset by the much tighter turning radius of With visibility more than 100 kilometers (60 miles) Mutke easily spotted the P-51. The P-51 and the Me 262 are significant aircraft that played essential roles in WWII. Kulp sustained severe wounds but survived. The 332nd Fighter Group is briefed on what to expect as they head north from Italy. (#D144,938 in June 4, 1946). ' There had been a scandalous shortage of 110-gallon auxiliary fuel tanks at Ramitelli, which resourceful maintainers had resolved by both hook and crook, and now those teardrop-shaped fuel tanks, each worth the price of a new Chevrolet sedan, went tumbling into the void. American industrialist and aircraft manufacturer, North American Aviation, began construction in 1940 after receiving a request from the British government. P 51 Mustang's guard the bombers, Their crews call 'our little friends'. Too fast to catch for the escorting Allied fighters, the Me 262s were almost impossible to head off. Bf-109 vs Zero Several things make the Me 262 better than the P-51. Red Tails: P-51 Mustang vs Messerschmitt Me 262 Davo De Gondolin 21.5K subscribers Subscribe 81K Share 9.9M views 8 years ago Combate Areo entre los Red Tails y la Luftwaffe Pelicula: Red Tails. Why did few French and no Dutch pilots (but many Poles and Czechs) take part in the Battle of Britain? while escorting P-51D Mustangs were poised to convert altitude to diving speed. JavaScript is disabled. All Rights Reserved. Some people prefer the look of the P-51 over the Me 262. JeuxVideo.com. But there is historical curiosity at stake :-). "On November 8, 1950, the then Capt. [ref: Air Force Airman Winter 2007] [ref: Ziegler]. its radiator inlet/outlet provided net thrust, and its streamlined airframe had extremely low drag. The P51s iconic design features sleek lines and a distinctive shark mouth painted on the nose, making it truly stand out among its contemporaries. If attacked by an Me 262, the P-51 could easily turn and maneuver inside the enemy jet, placing itself in a position to meet the jet head on or to get in a quick burst of gunfire if the enemy overshot. (Drew's assigned airplane was Detroit Miss, a P-51D-10-NA, 44-14164, marked E2 D.) Urban L. Drew joined the U.S. Army Air Corp in 1942 and trained as a P-51 fighter pilot.